"Live 8"....is it bollocks?.........

[red indian]

......I am very proud to tell you all that I have managed to avoid hearing a single note from this event!

I find the experience of being lectured to by millionare pop stars about charity rather distasteful. How about adding up the total wealth of all the tired sad acts on display and getting them to part with, say, half of their combined wealth? just think what a hole that would make in "making poverty history"

But of course, thats not quite the sort of "giving" they had in mind.

Geldof, Bono and all the other self appointed saints of debt relief might convince me and many others of their committment if they wrote out a few big fat checks of their own.

They rant on and on about "the government" writing off debt, but what is that exactly? its tax, tax collected from the great british public and from all the other G8 populaces.

Bob and Bono want you and me to pay, not "the government" it has no money of its own, it gets it money from you and me.

I have no problem with that in principle, but i think this should have been mad more clear.

I would also like to know exactly who it is who is writing off all this debt? who is it that is left with a big hole in his bank balance? and how will this hole be filled?

My money is on the poor old tax payer.

 

[qjakal]

Grouch...enjoy the music...ignore the politics. Good to see you back on the boards again, btw, old timer.

Q

 

[asutickler]

I agree 100%. I've been thinking the exact same things since I first heard of this event... It reminds me of that big post-911 charity deal where George Cloony and all of those other multimillionaire stars encouraged the little people to give until it hurts. Certain other celebs at the time (Britney Spears and Dr. Dre jump to mind, but there were others) had the right idea: They simply wrote out a gigantic check and had done with it.

I try my best to simply do what I think is right and shut up about it unless asked... I wish Hollywood would show me the same courtesy.

 

[tickledorange]

I dunno. It was nice to see Pink Floyd back together again, even if it was just for this concert.

 

[Nige]

Nothing like a bit of free publicity on a large scale for the so-called pop/rock stars. Call me cynical, but I bet their record sales will increase over the next few weeks. So the event will of been worthwile for their bank balance, as I doubt they will be donating any of the extra income.

They want the ordinary tax payer to foot the bill for ending debt, whilst their huge wealth is safely locked away in a tax haven. Bunch of hypocrites, the lot of them.

 

[JoBelle]

Thank God I'm not alone.

Ooohohh, I'm such a bad person. Well, bite me.

I already give to my selected charities and am a part of active volunteerism. I don't need some overrated, outdated, and self-righteous "artist" singing offkey and behind the note to tell me that something needs to be done.

It was really fantastic advertising I have to say though. Top job by MTV and VH1 on that.

Jo

Ah, vent complete. I feel better 🙂

 

[dskodj]

... the so-called pop/rock stars.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!! SOMEONE ACTUALY SEES THINGS MY WAY!!!!!!!! YAYYYY!!!!!!

But like I said in the other post in the other section...the Floyd reunion was all I was interested in..but didnt even get to see it cause I was so disgusted with the rest.

 

[JohnnyB]

Sorry to be abusive, but did any of you morons even read what the whole thing was about? They don't want money! They want to create awarness, so people like you don't pass off the deaths of millions of people as something that doesn't concern you. There's a petition online that is to be given to the leaders at the G8, mainly pointing out that if so many people were dying in first world countries then everybody would instantly try to help. So please try and be a little more sympathetic to those less fortunate than you.

 

[Nige]

Yes I know exactly what it was all about, and I am not a moron. As I said in my first post, the publicity will help the careers and bank balances of the so called pop/rock stars, and if they aren't thinking it, you can bet their record bosses are.

 

[asutickler]

Sorry to be abusive, but did any of you morons even read what the whole thing was about? They don't want money! They want to create awarness, so people like you don't pass off the deaths of millions of people as something that doesn't concern you. There's a petition online that is to be given to the leaders at the G8, mainly pointing out that if so many people were dying in first world countries then everybody would instantly try to help. So please try and be a little more sympathetic to those less fortunate than you.

Yes... And did YOU happen to read that their plans to "eliminate poverty" mostly involve THROWING TAX DOLLARS at the problem? "Don't want money" my ass. Those are generally the first words out of the mouth of any true con artist.

If some pack of celebrities wants to get together and donate part of their enormous wealth to help eliminate poverty, they have my full blessing. But when they start lobbying the governments of the world to force donations out of their citizens by donating public (tax) funds, I say f*ck 'em.

 

[JohnnyB]

The debt they speak of is already out of your pockets. They didn't tax you anything more than usual. They gave this money to third world countries with the intent of getting it back when these countries can afford it. But it didn't work out, so people are petitioning our governments to call it quits and not seek this money back (money which neither you nor I will ever see again anyway). I can understand why so many people complain about other charities where celebrities get paid to make appearances and demand that we pay for it, but Live 8 isn't like that at all. Yes, some of the celebrities may have their profiles changed by appearing at it, but why should the poor of the world suffer because you refuse to do anything on the grounds that people better off than you don't give everything they earned to help the poor! This is why Live 8 will fail, because no-one cares.

 

[asutickler]

The money was disbursed as a loan, not as a gift. The intent was for the funds to be loaned, repaid, and then re-lent to other third-world nations. The nations in question aren't paying squat on their debts anyway, because they don't have the funds... What's the difference?


Also, if you look on the Live 8 petition website, it says right there in big, bold letters that they want the G8 to "double their output of aid." Where do you think that money is going to come from, exactly?

 

[JohnnyB]

The money was disbursed as a loan, not as a gift. The intent was for the funds to be loaned, repaid, and then re-lent to other third-world nations. The nations in question aren't paying squat on their debts anyway, because they don't have the funds... What's the difference?

I didn't say it was a gift. And I really don't understand what you mean by "What's the difference?". The difference between what and what? You simply pointed out that these countries can't pay off the loans that have been given to them. This is the whole reason for calling off the debt.

Also, if you look on the Live 8 petition website, it says right there in big, bold letters that they want the G8 to "double their output of aid." Where do you think that money is going to come from, exactly?

And as I said before, you don't get taxed more! You government makes money from tax, interest on loans (not just to third world countries, but also to first world countries too), through selling of assets and endless other means, which to be honest I'm not too familiar with. And "aid" isn't just money. It's equipment, personnel and education. It's hoped that these can be freely given to help the poor to help themselves. And I know these things cost money, but consider the billions the States plows needlessly into the military. This could easily be spent on trying to make to world a little better, and it would cost you or I a cent.

 

[penny lane]

I have to agree. I hate to sound like a negative nancy and as much as I admire and respct Sir Bob Geldolf...Live 8 will change nothing, let alone create awareness.

I hate to break it to you, but the people (mostly the teenagers) who attend this concert will be there to see their favorite band play. They will not attend the show as a sign of solidarity to end world hunger. They will not leave the show and change their consumption habits either. In fact, 24 hours after the concert, I'll bet 98% of them won’t remember any of the overtly political messages blurted from the stage. All the chatter that went on between acts and between songs will go in one ear and out the other.

 

[MrMacphisto]

Ah... this is why I love humans. When confronted with a global moral issue, they hide behind cynicism or idealism to justify whatever mindset they desperately cling to. The rich guys throw a party and ask for your money, while the general public clings to their own funds just as greedily as the rich themselves. Meanwhile, the people less fortunate still die endlessly. Then, of course, if any money actually reaches the less fortunate, the people ruling them squander it for themselves. In short, the desperately poor are screwed regardless of whether we help or not.

Just take comfort in knowing that if our roles were reversed, they probably would neglect to help us as much as we neglect them currently. Be thankful you have this luxury, because they don't....

Anyway, "here's Tom with the weather...."

 

[theshire]

The thing is that we are being preached to not only by people who don’t have any idea what they’re talking about, but by people who have the means and ability to do far more than any other individual person and don't make any kind of personal sacrifice for doing so. Let me elaborate.

Take someone like Madonna, for example. Madonna is a singer. She sings for a living (and bares her vagina for anyone willing to pay a buck, but let’s stick with singing). Her big contribution to the cause of world poverty? Spending one day out of her life doing what she does for a living. Let me put it to you this way. If someone came to you and said, "Hey, if you come in this Saturday and work one day for free, we could really do something about world poverty." Who wouldn't do something like that? I can’t do much on my own, but I would gladly go to work one day of my off-time if it meant something really beneficial could happen.

The distinction here, of course, is that Madonna isn’t a regular working stiff, she’s a multi-gagillionaire. She could very easily endow a charity with $20 million dollars to provide a poverty-stricken area of Africa with a hospital. With proper management of the endowment she could do some real good to some poor people. Now, look at people like Elton John, or Bono, the latter whose big contribution to world poverty was to fly around Africa with the treasury secretary a couple of years ago. Do you see my point? These pampered celebrity fucks are taking the moral high ground, expecting the G8 to excuse hundreds of billions of dollars in debt to these third world nations, yet the most they are willing to do on their own (where their money is concerned) is spend one day doing their job. And let’s not kid ourselves, either. They’re showing up in limousines with their full entourage, hanging out in the artists area with all of their song-and-dance ilk, telling each other what a wonderful thing they’re doing, then going home to their mansions, or taking their private jets back to America.

These hypocritical pricks have benefitted more from free market capitalism than anyone, yet they are more than happy to look at the working man with righteous indignation and tell us how we need to "give something back".

These people make me sick, simply because they expect everyone else to do something that they would never do themselves: sacrifice. It's really easy to demand sacrifice when you've got more money than you could ever possibly spend. Their idea of sacrificing is spending an afternoon doing their job. What an inspiration.

 

[General Zod]

Ah... this is why I love humans. When confronted with a global moral issue, they hide behind cynicism or idealism to justify whatever mindset they desperately cling to. The rich guys throw a party and ask for your money, while the general public clings to their own funds just as greedily as the rich themselves. Meanwhile, the people less fortunate still die endlessly. Then, of course, if any money actually reaches the less fortunate, the people ruling them squander it for themselves. In short, the desperately poor are screwed regardless of whether we help or not.

Just take comfort in knowing that if our roles were reversed, they probably would neglect to help us as much as we neglect them currently. Be thankful you have this luxury, because they don't....

Anyway, "here's Tom with the weather...."

I have to disagree with that statement How many of the working class can afford to give to charities all over the fething world As far as being cynical about those rich pampered celebs........... damn right I am Those fething morons live in mansions or castles How many of them are willing to set an example and give till it hurts? Or better yet take in some homeless people into their fething mansions

Most of the working class needs to hold on to their paycheck just to live on a daily basis But yey we are the ones who have to give till it hurts?

 

[JohnnyB]

Again, the point of the concert was to create awareness, not to demand money. A more important point is:
PEOPLE ARE DYING!!!
and people prefer the argue about the motives of those who campaign and then they turn a blind eye on any suffering.

Celebrities are used to promote causes, because they have a higher profile. If a load of us started a campaign, who would seriously listen? We're nobodies, but they're sombody and they are used to pass the message onto their fans.

Something can be done, but nobody wants the responsibility. And when someone finally does stand up, everybody gives out about them because they're wealthy.

 

[General Zod]

JohnnyB
Yes people are dying Yes it was an "awareness" concert But I ask again What exactly are the rich celebs doing besides "raising awareness" A lot of the working class may not be able to afford to give till it hurts

The rich celebs are in a much bigger position to help these people But how many will do that,besides raising awareness?

Another thing How much of that help actually reaches the people that need it?

It's always the worlds governments resposnability to help those people? If that's true where are they getting the money from? The tax payers of course Now I don't mind some of my tax money going to help the starving,dying people


But I wonder Are the rich celebs really doing enough?

 

[venray]

JohnnyB
Yes people are dying Yes it was an "awareness" concert But I ask again What exactly are the rich celebs doing besides "raising awareness" A lot of the working class may not be able to afford to give till it hurts

The rich celebs are in a much bigger position to help these people But how many will do that,besides raising awareness?

Another thing How much of that help actually reaches the people that need it?

It's always the worlds governments resposnability to help those people? If that's true where are they getting the money from? The tax payers of course Now I don't mind some of my tax money going to help the starving,dying people


But I wonder Are the rich celebs really doing enough?

Is this justification for not trying. No one is saying give until it hurts. Perhaps if we went without a cup of coffee or a pack of smokes or whatever vices we have for just one week, we could make a difference. Perhaps if we lend our voices to the cause the big boys who get together to decide the fate of the less fortunate will realize that a system needs to be set up by which those in need RECEIVE the aid offered.

Sittng back and saying " the guys with money dont do enough and the people dont receive the aid anyway" is NOT going to help solve the problem.

This event was free and the artists all performed for free and it was broadcast on the internet for free and all they ever asked for was for us to lend our voice and show concern instead of hiding behind excuses and drowning in our own apathy. The cause was not started by Geldorf or the guys with money. He organized this event to let people know of its existence.

I was very skeptical of the whole thing until I woke up and paid attention to the message.

www.one.org

Visit it and check it out.

 

[MrMacphisto]

Again, the point of the concert was to create awareness, not to demand money. A more important point is:
PEOPLE ARE DYING!!!
and people prefer the argue about the motives of those who campaign and then they turn a blind eye on any suffering.

Celebrities are used to promote causes, because they have a higher profile. If a load of us started a campaign, who would seriously listen? We're nobodies, but they're sombody and they are used to pass the message onto their fans.

Something can be done, but nobody wants the responsibility. And when someone finally does stand up, everybody gives out about them because they're wealthy.

I agree, but that's why it's a much safer career move to be rich and never get involved in these charities. No one can badger you for being preachy if you tend to yourself. To hell with the world: I'll get mine, and I'll even take yours if I'm given the opportunity.

People are selfish, hopeless beings that will continue to oppress each other, whether it's through dictatorships, war, greed, religion, etc., it doesn't matter. Something to be thankful for is that we all eventually die. It's merely the lucky ones that enjoy their long lives before this inevitable event.

Besides, who cares about awareness, when you can escape reality with the decadence around us? I'm sure the celebrities are even more familiar with this than most of us here are....

 

[MrMacphisto]

Is this justification for not trying. No one is saying give until it hurts. Perhaps if we went without a cup of coffee or a pack of smokes or whatever vices we have for just one week, we could make a difference. Perhaps if we lend our voices to the cause the big boys who get together to decide the fate of the less fortunate will realize that a system needs to be set up by which those in need RECEIVE the aid offered.

Sittng back and saying " the guys with money dont do enough and the people dont receive the aid anyway" is NOT going to help solve the problem.

This event was free and the artists all performed for free and it was broadcast on the internet for free and all they ever asked for was for us to lend our voice and show concern instead of hiding behind excuses and drowning in our own apathy. The cause was not started by Geldorf or the guys with money. He organized this event to let people know of its existence.

I was very skeptical of the whole thing until I woke up and paid attention to the message.

www.one.org

Visit it and check it out.

Ah... venray... you're destroying my cult of apathy... how could you? 😀

 

[venray]

Ah... venray... you're destroying my cult of apathy... how could you? 😀

Well it's a dirty job, but SOMEONE has to do it..... 😱

 

[JohnnyB]

I think the best metaphor (if that's the right word), is one that a BBC presenter said: If the world was reversed and it was your family that was going to starve to death/ die of disease/ be murdered in the middle of the night by the government etc, wouldn't you want something done about it? And how would you feel if everyone else in the world looked the other way and then complained that their money was being spent on saving your life?

People are selfish, hopeless beings that will continue to oppress each other, whether it's through dictatorships, war, greed, religion, etc., it doesn't matter. Something to be thankful for is that we all eventually die. It's merely the lucky ones that enjoy their long lives before this inevitable event.

And that's why we should try and change all that.

 

[BOFH666]

Is this justification for not trying. No one is saying give until it hurts. Perhaps if we went without a cup of coffee or a pack of smokes or whatever vices we have for just one week, we could make a difference. Perhaps if we lend our voices to the cause the big boys who get together to decide the fate of the less fortunate will realize that a system needs to be set up by which those in need RECEIVE the aid offered.

Sittng back and saying " the guys with money dont do enough and the people dont receive the aid anyway" is NOT going to help solve the problem.

This event was free and the artists all performed for free and it was broadcast on the internet for free and all they ever asked for was for us to lend our voice and show concern instead of hiding behind excuses and drowning in our own apathy. The cause was not started by Geldorf or the guys with money. He organized this event to let people know of its existence.

I was very skeptical of the whole thing until I woke up and paid attention to the message.

www.one.org

Visit it and check it out.

Absolutley. I've become more and more depressed as I've seen sentiments like those expressed here posted all over the web in the build up to live 8 and in the aftermath. If we have really become this cynical as a species it's time to tear it down and give the ants a go. Even if, as someone said above, only 2% of those that watched the concert remember the message thet were hoping to reach 4 Billion people. That's would mean that 80 Million people took something away from it that might actually make a difference. When those sorts of figures are being thrown around even a fraction of a percent can be significant.

Those that actually paid attention to the concert and promotional material saw that there were three items on the agenda: debt relief, increased aid and fair trade. If, as has been argued by at least one person here, those debts aren't being repaid anyway then writing them off doesn't actually affect the G8 countries much if at all (other than an item on the asset register). Increased aid will cost more, true, but the numbers aren't actually that huge. America for instance is saying it will double aid by an additional 8.3 Billion Dollars. Sounds a lot? That's about $15 bucks per capita per year. And, to put that in perspective, the defence budget for the USA in the current year jumped by 20 Billion Dollars. Providing fair trade to Africa would allow them, in theory anyway, to work their way out of poverty, thereby reducing and eventually eliminating their need for aid. The packages being discussed have clauses designed to reduce corruption and maybe, just maybe, they'll buy enough time for real genuine political change to come to Africa.

And to those bitching about stars never giving their own money (Examples picked from the names complained about above):

U2 are donating over £3 Million to Make Poverty History
Elton John has donated over £42 Million to charity in 2004
Madonna donated $2 Million to victims of 9/11 and their families

Fact is most stars do donate to charity but most don't make a huge deal out of it because they're in a no-win situation. If they advertise they're "doing it for the publicity", if they don't they "never give their own money".

Yesterday I thought that maybe, just MAYBE, there was hope for us collectivley to do something good and noble and right. Today I see those hopes drowning in a sea of cynicism. I think Bill Hicks said it best:

The world is like a ride at an amusement park. It goes up and down and round and round. It has thrills and chills and it's very brightly coloured and it's very loud and it's fun, for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time and they begin to question, is this real, or is this just a ride? And other people have remembered, and they come back to us, they say, "hey - don't worry, don't be afraid, ever, because, this is just a ride..." And we... kill those people. Ha ha "Shut him up." "We have a lot invested in this ride. Shut him up. Look at my furrows of worry. Look at my big bank account and my family. This just has to be real." Just a ride. But we always kill those good guys who try and tell us that, you ever notice that? And let the demons run amok. Jesus mudered; Martin Luther King mudered; Malcolm X murdered; Gandhi murdered; John Lennon murdered. But it doesn't matter because: It's just a ride. And we can change it anytime we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings and money. A choice, right now, between fear and love.

The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your doors, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love, instead, see all of us as one. Here's what we can do to change the world, right now, to a better ride. Take all that money that we spend on weapons and defences each year and instead spend it feeding and clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would many times over, not one human being excluded, and we could explore space, together, both inner and outer, forever, in peace.