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partial birth abortions

I'm hardly ignorant simply because my opinion differs from yours, Jez. Perhaps the pot should take a look in the mirror before calling the kettle black.

I'm 30 years old. Been sexually active and fully able to conceive for 12 years. Yet I only have one child, one whom I would give my life for. WOW! How did I manage that? Simple. By use of CONTRACEPTIVES. I know I know, a radical approach indeed! Maybe ONE day the idea will catch on and become a more mainstream way to prevent unwanted pregnancies.

Several years ago, a former friend of mine got pregnant with her 3rd child. She was strong, independant, and financially capable of raising the child along with her other two. But, she had just kicked the father of her children (her husband) to the curb, because she had gotten bored with him, and wanted a new man in her life. He was having a hard time dealing with the seperation, and an even harder time dealing with the fact she wanted a divorce and he was no longer going to be able to be a daily part of his childrens lives. So 3 weeks after she kicked him out, and already had her eye on a new man, she realized she was pregnant with her husbands 3rd child. She realized it would be an 'inconvienience'. For one, her husband, and father of the child would *gasp* want to be a part of the childs life. And two, landing this new guy she had her eye on would prove difficult enough with 2 kids, let alone three. She was after a live-in babysitter, and that would simply be too hard to find with 3 kids. So she opted to wash her hands of the entire affair and have an abortion. PRESTO! Problems all solved with one quick visit to the doctor. Being naive as I was back then, not having any children of my own yet and not understanding the feelings a mother has for their own child, I said yes when she asked me of I would go with her for 'support'. The staff allowed me back into the room with her, and I sat there and held her hand during the procedure. I sat there and WATCHED the entire abortion being done. There is nothing like viewing a live procedure to sober ones views and make them take a second look at the reality of it all.

So 3 weeks later, she is healed, dating this new guy, and I'm sitting at home pondering the justice in the whole affair. Then I get a phone call. Her husband (one of my best friends, mind you, and former fiance before we realized we were much better friends than lovers) had just committed suicide. Hung himself from a tree in a friends backyard. The female friend could care less. Never once did she shed a tear over his death, nor did she ever give any second thought to her decision to have HIS child aborted without HIS knowledge, or even without telling him she was pregnant at all. He died, never knowing.

He loved his kids, and his seperation from them was the hardest thing for him to deal with. He would have GLADLY taken full custody of the baby, and she could have moved on with her life, never having to deal with it again. It would have given him new hope and a reason to live, but she killed that along with their mutual baby when she visited the doctor that fateful day.

So to say I am 'ignorant' for my beliefs is a bit inane. I base my views and opinions on my OWN experiences...not on political correctness or modern liberation.

Mimi
 
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i knew i respected you for some reason mimi

now i now what it is. i can't put it into words, just feelings.
all i can say is wow, you are one hell of a person!

your story about that father and his estranged wife touched me very close to home. but i have a question. are you so sure he didn't know about his 3rd child being aborted? i would see that as a catalist for his suicide. i too had such feelings, and ideas following being informed of my own children being aborted.

i also loved your coments on the use of contraseptives. the postic justice of this is that women who routinly have unprotected sex, and with multiple partners, and abortions to end those pesky little side affects, suffer a much higher rate of cancers of the reproductive tract and breast, pid's, and disease induced sterility. hmm, doesn't seem worth fucking around to me.

steve
 
Omg Mimi, that's one of the saddest things I've heard... 🙁


Your point about birth control is dead-on. So many unwanted pregnancies could be avoided simply by using protection or taking a pill every morning... Hell, now they even have a birth control PATCH. Sure, using a prophylactic is a momentary inconvenience... but isn't that preferable to snuffing out a tiny little life?


I REALLY wish that guys had the luxury of chemical birth control. Accidentally fathering a child actually frightens me MORE than catching HIV or some other lethal disease... But should it happen, I'd do ANYTHING to keep the child alive, rather than having it aborted behind my back or something. The very IDEA makes me shudder... :sowrong:
 
Re: answers?

areenactor said:
#3...but i bet you would be right there in the front row de-crying the severity of the punishment that these assholes deserve!
Oh I guess it's my turn for your vitriol, is it?

You don't know me, you don't know anything about my life;

in fact most of your posts clearly show that you continually shoot your mouth off in the most repugnantly offensive way possible while demonstrating your total ignorance of most subjects.

Sincerely, Roseblossom
 
There is no question that the simplest way to avoid unwanted pregnancy is to use contraception (I know someone's going to chime in with "abstinence" but let's be realistic). Of course it's preferable to abortion. Even if you're the most cold, heartless sack of shit on the planet it's still easier to take a pill (get a shot, use a condom, wear a patch, etc.) than to undergo a medical procedure. Call it "pro-abortion bullshit", but I still maintain that abortion is a last resort (by the way, what is pro-abortion bullshit about the statement "Partial-birth abortion does not happen that often, and then it's because the baby or mom would be irrecovacably damaged?" Is there evidence to suggest that this procedure occurs on a frequent basis?). It would be a great thing for medical science if there was in fact a chemical birth control for guys. But you simply can't account for everyone's individual situation (see sugarmouse's post earlier in the thread.)

Mimi, that is indeed a sad story, and it is understandable that it has shaped your views on abortion. You are anti-abortion in your personal views, and that is fine. I don't pretend to know your view on the legality of abortion, but personally I don't feel you can put restrictions on it, at least through the early stages of pregnancy. Guys like the one you described do exist, but not every woman facing an unwanted pregnancy has that luxury (see sugarmouse's post earlier in the thread.) If I got a girl pregnant unexpectedly, I would certainly discourage her from using abortion as an option, and I agree that I would like the courtesy of being informed of the pregnancy. I would probably even offer to keep the kid myself rather than have it aborted. But I can't justify applying my beliefs to every situation. People face really difficult, shitty situations. While I know there are those that abuse abortion as a birth control method, I'd like to think that for most it is a desperate measure. Furthermore, I strongly feel that the government has no right to legislate morality unless you are infringing on the rights of others (fetuses are not currently considered citizens in the United States.)
 
"I find it very interesting that you are trying to constrain Jez (who makes some very good points) but not the guys who are foaming at the mouth?"


Thanks for setting me so straight, Rose. Much appreciated. I feel so much better now.
 
I don't understand your reply, Knox

Knox The Hatter said:
...I feel so much better now.
What is it you feel so much better about?

Realizing that women foam at the mouth, too, just like men, without needing to be told to "make nice"?

~Roseblossom~
 
And so it goes...another thread with the begininngs of intelligent discussion degenerating into "if you dont see it my way you are ignorant" rant.

No one here is imposing their views on those who believe it is a "right" of the woman to have a fetus removed. We are just expressing our opinions as the rest of you are. Just because we dont condone what we believe to be murder doesnt mean we are forcing you to believe the same.

When we resort to name calling and word twisting and post disection, then it is no longer a discussion among intelligent people trying to present their point of view.

Abortion is legal...so is the death penalty in some states...doesnt mean I have to agree with the law or like it nor will any of you change that point of view for me without showing logic and thought before you post. You have only made my position stronger by arguing your points by demeaning the views of others without showing substance to back up your point of view.People that do that usually do so because they are unable to make a point in any other way.

Sigh🙄

Ok on with the shouting match........

Ven
 
I am a threat to no one (wont bother responding to yet another name calling), I have no influence on Congress I do not attempt to convince them of anything. I live in the same world as you and my position fits in quite well. I am against the taking of human life.
Imagine if everyone believed this what the world would be like...(oh the horror)

So who is creating the mess of which you speak. Not I. I propose peace and love and life to all people everywhere.

(hmm...maybe you are right about it not fitting in with your world of kill for peace of mind and convenience)

As I have said before...I sleep well at night...many who have killed their children do not...ask them why if it is as wholesome a thing as you wish to portray it to be...


Peace😀
 
venray1 said:
I am a threat to no one (wont bother responding to yet another name calling), I have no influence on Congress I do not attempt to convince them of anything.

You're outspokenly anti-choice and anti-abotion. You call people who find that ridiculous: murderers. when politicians look at the culture of their voters, they see you. and act on your wishes. and then they try to ban partial birth abortions.

I live in the same world as you and my position fits in quite well.

You dont live in my world baby, and you clearly dont care about any woman who could accidently get pregnant and consider a choice. Therefore, it doesn't fit in well at all.

I am against the taking of human life.
Imagine if everyone believed this what the world would be like...(oh the horror)

Yeah, how many of those human lives would you adopt all of them? I'd rather have an abortion than trust you with my baby.

So who is creating the mess of which you speak. Not I. I propose peace and love and life to all people everywhere.

Except women who dont want to be mothers or have shitty lives.

(hmm...maybe you are right about it not fitting in with your world of kill for peace of mind and convenience)

My world of kill? I'll bet you personally contribute to killing living things every day but call women you dont even know killers for having abortions. You nazi.

As I have said before...I sleep well at night...many who have killed their children do not...ask them why if it is as wholesome a thing as you wish to portray it to be...

Abortion is not the equivelent of killing a child, it's terminating a pregnancy before a child is even born.

I keep mine in a pitri dish under my pillow, so I'm never alone when I sleep. And I do. very well. 😀


Peace😀
 
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Originally posted by Jez

"My world of kill? I'll bet you personally contribute to killing living things every day but call women you dont even know killers for having abortions. You nazi."



I rest my case. You have made my point entirely and the sad thing is you really dont know it.....

Peace to you and your pitri dish...
 
Now now, Venray & Jez

Cool down.

"No one here is imposing their views..." on anyone else, after all.

No one on this forum would EVER do such a thing.

😉 Button
 
I am quite calm button.It is not I doing the name calling after all...
lol 😀 😉

As for me speaking out against abortion..I guess so if you call this thread speaking out where the lawmakers will find it. I do not speak out for or against it anywhere at least not until this thread started and it was easy to show everyone how absolutely stupid this kind of thread gets in a tickling forum discussion board.

People are so intolerable of people with opposing views on this and homosexuality and religion, that all threads on these topics end up the same...when someone has no logic to fall back on they throw out insults and epithets ...whoever screams the loudest wins...lol...not here..and not with me..I could care less if people want to abort their kids as long as they stay away from me and mine.....

As for being responsible for killing on a daily basis...perhaps, but not the killing of a human or a potential human lifeform whose intelligence might just be higher than the mother it never got to have.


Ven
 
anyone seen any good films lately?

Hmmm, maybe it's time to talk about something else...😀

Seriously, it is beginning to seem as if this is going nowhere. Everyone believes what they believe and there's really not much anyone else can do about it. We're dealing with an issue that has major implications on both sides of the legality debate, so it's bound to be emotional. I mean, we're putting the origins of life against the rights of women and the authority and role of government. Not easy stuff to discuss calmly. I don't want to rehash everything that's been discussed so far, but I would like to add one thing before this thread dies or becomes a screaming (er...loud typing) match.

This is an idea that people aren't going to like. To some, it will seem ridiculous. Should we reward people for irresponsibility(realizing that "responsibility" must be used subjectively), you say? Basically, yes. We are all part of society. Society is not perfect, nor should we expect it to be. There are going to be unwanted pregnancies, no matter how much you preach or how many condoms you distribute. So some woman living in poverty gets pregnant. There is no way she can care for the baby, nor does she want to. You want to save the lives of babies? Give her an incentive to carry through with the pregnancy and give the baby up for adoption. Yes, it's welfare and then some. What to do with all the unwanted babies? Well with all the people screaming about the evils of abortion there's bound to be a few million families that would take in some unwanted kids to save them from abortion, right? Make it easier and cheaper for people to adopt. Instead of spending billions and billions of dollars pretending to fight terrorism (last I heard osama and saddam were still hiding in a cave somewhere while a steady stream of body bags comes home), make it more financially advantageous to adopt a baby. Make it easier for single women keep unwanted babies to get a job and have a life. If your attitude is that she should be on her own and shouldn't have gotten pregnant in the first place, then don't bitch that abortion is legal. Anyone besides me like the band Mudhoney? (I realize it's a long shot) One of my favorite lines from a song of their's is "I'm all for life, till the bastard's born. After that, he's on his own..." Remember, we can't expect to live in a perfect utopian society. If these measures seem extreme or impractical, we can always keep things the way they are or go back to the days of back alleys and coat hangers.
 
Well said Sushi...add to that the creation of cheap or free daycare for mothers who have to work to support their kids...I would gladly have my tax dollars go to that than to fund abortion,war, and other mayhem in the world.

Ven
 
Sushi, nice post

sushi854 said:
...Well with all the people screaming about the evils of abortion there's bound to be a few million families that would take in some unwanted kids to save them from abortion, right?
Sadly, most of them probably would not - how does that saying go?

"It's easier to shake a finger than to extend a hand."

But you have some good ideas there. It's also great to hear someone facing facts rather than spreading horror stories or spouting sanctimonious statements. (like that alliteration? 😛 )

Button

😎
 
Out of 6+ billion people, this procedure happens like, twice a year. I can live with that.
 
"A fetus is a non-human, it's developing into one. this does not make it a child or a cute little baby or whatever."


That is your opinion my dear...you have no facts which back that up only what you want to believe....I believe it is very human...It is how we all start out....

The fact that it is developing is enough reason to let it do so...in my opinion...

If you read my original post then you know that I consider life to begin at conception, so using birth control or having unused sperm would not make one a baby killer....there would not yet be a baby to kill...


And I hate no one least of all someone I dont know...I may not agree with a lifestyle or beliefs or things that they do, but it does not make me hate them....nor judge them...as I have said before...it is not my place in this world to judge...I have merely put forth my opinions in a thread....you take my words too personally..they are not meant to be as I do not know you...dont even know if you are a woman any more than you know for sure I am a man......We havent met...


And to clarify..what I meant was that had they had the chance to develop before life was wrenched from them...they might have been more intelligent.....we will never know that for sure one way or another, will we....


Peace....Sorry if my words upset you...they were not meant to upset, but to promote discussion....

I shall cease to post here......


Ray
 
when i read your post to me, i became so fucking enraged, i had an attack of blurred vission, and dizziness.


Lol lol lol lol lol lol lol. Anyways. why exactly are partial birth abortions considered worse than normal abortions?
 
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